tv CNN Presents CNN August 5, 2012 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
enforcement expert helping guide us through this. i really want to say thank you to rajwant singh. you have added priceless information and context. we appreciate you and we will join more -- we'll have more with you a little bit later on with cnn. in the meantime, i'm don lemon. >> i'm rob marciano. you've been watching thank you newsroom. don will be back at 9:00 eastern time for more special coverage. . >> tonight on cnn presents, is mississippi still burning? a shocking crime. accusations of a sinister motive. >> there's no doubt they were looking for a black victim to assault and even kill in this instance. >> twisted justice? >> i just saw him up with the bat and he started to swing. that's when i reached for the gun. >> this new york city cop says he fired to save his father's life. >> i was convicted of second degree murder. >> but he would walk free after
that conviction was overturned. how did he end up back in prison? >> you must have been crushed, crushed when they told you you had to go back. prescription for cheating. they read our x-rays but a cnn investigation over the certification of many radiologists. >> isn't it cheating? >> revealing investigation, fascinating characters and impact. tonight's hosts, randi kaye and drew griffin. >> tonight, hard hitting investigations into racism, cheating and injustice. we begin with a murder in mississippi, a brutal killing fueled by race and ranl. we broke the story of a young white teenager accused of killing a black man just because of the color of his skin. >> over our four month investigation we found even more disturbing details uncovering how the teenager and some of his friends had a history of violent
and racist incidents and questioning whether authorities turned a blind eye. i've been following this story from the very beginning. ♪ ♪ >> june 26th in mississippi would bring temperatures into the 90s. a breeze out of the southwest would barely move the state flag enough to see that confederate battle symbol still displayed in its upper left corner. at 4:00 a.m. on this sunday morning, most of mississippi was still asleep. but for a group of teenagers, white teenagers barrelling west on interstate 20, a mission was already under way. they were headed to jackson, because in their segregated
world, jackson is where the black people live. >> they were looking for black people. they were looking for a black person to assault. >> mississippi's district attorney, robert shuller smith says evidence shows those white mississippi teens had just one thing in mind. >> they discussed, let's go get, let's be honest, let's go get a -- right? >> that's exactly right. >> it was still dark when james craig anderson walked out of a motel towards his car in a parking lot of jackson's ellis avenue. smith says that's when the white teenager saw him, james, a black man, alone. it is hard to imagine what happened next without using the term "hate." the teenagers were mostly right in the county were being led by
an 18-year-old, darrell edmond, who had a history of harassing teens at his high school by certainly accounts from parents and students who knew him, hated black, hated white people who had black friends, hated anyone he thought was gay. on this sunday morning, after a night of drinking, he and his friends, witnesses have told police, were out to act on that hate. some of the teens there that night would tell police the teenagers attacked that lone black man without any provocation, repeatedly beating anderson, yelling white power. then, one of the vehicles drives of off. >> darrell dedman apparently wasn't through. he had two girls in his truck as we was leaving this parking lot, a big f-250 pickup truck. james craig anderson, the man beaten almost to a pulp was
stumbling down this curb. that's when police say darrell dedman hit the gas, jumped the curb and ran right over his victim, smashing him. what he didn't know was the entire episode was being caught on a surveillance camera on the corner of this hotel. this is what was caught on that tape, obtained exclusively by cnn and we warn you, it is disturbing. james craig anderson first comes into view in the right lower corner of the screen after he was beaten, accord though police. he staggers into the head rights of mr. dedman's truck, his shirt easily visible. then the truck backs up, surges forward, the headlights glowing brightly on anderson's shirt before he and that shirt disappear underneath it. the truck runs right over the defenseless man.
>> after he does that, he drives to an mcdonald's, he picks up the phone, apparently calls a buddy and says what? >> according to the testimony, i ran that -- over. >> witnesses say he almost was bragging about it, that he was laughing about it really. >> that's what we plan to present. >> darrell dedman pleaded not guilty at first. his attorney refused to answer cnn's many calls for comment although during one court appearance, that attorney said he did not see any evidence racism was involved. the district attorney says nothing else was involved. he classified this as capital murder and a hate crime. you would think it would be a wake-up call for any town where that kind of hate could fester. but this is brandon, mississippi. think again. >> it's an unfortunate incident.
it happened but it -- once it happened, we haven't gone into code red, oh, my god, we've got a major problem. let's stop traffic and everybody needs to go home and lock our doors. you know, we just kind of keep going doing what we do. >> here, where a confederate war memorial stands at the center of town, police say there were no warning signs. but we found the police were wrong. cnn learned investigators were looking into allegations darrell and his friends had a pattern of racism and violence. >> how did they get away with this? >> they just never got in trouble like they would be told on and the cops wouldn't do anything to them. they'd let them go. >> school officials ever intervene? >> no. let them go. coming up, did a town's indifference help lead to murder? reer,
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[ male announcer ] when diarrhea hits, kaopectate stops it fast. powerful liquid relief speeds to the source. fast. [ male announcer ] stop the uh-oh fast with kaopectate. the death of james craig anderson was like the dark mississippi past come back to life. prosecutor, robert smith, had only heard the tales of racial hatred from his grandfather who helped and housed civil rights leaders like dr. edgars and dr. martin lu ther kither king jr. it was before he was even born when both men were shot down in a terrible wave of violence. on june sixth of last year, that ughbly past was suddenly present.
>> when you first saw the surveillance video, what was your reaction? >> certainly breathtaking, unbelievable. i thought about the fact that that could have been anyone, including myself. >> the district attorney at first charged deryl dedmon the teen driving the truck that killed anderson with capital murder. a second teen was charged with simple assault. five other white teenagers who were there were not charged. anderson's family has kept their grief and frustration mostly private. after a court hearing, anderson's sister could not contain her emotions. >> go to brandon, mississippi. go to brandon, mississippi and get those other five murderers who committed such an horrendous violent act against my beloved
brother, james craig anderson. >> you have to drive east to brand brandon, across the pearl river, the invisible line that seems to separate black mississippi from white. while in jackson, anderson's killing prompted marches and a call for healing. in brandon, the reaction was mostly silent. brandon police wouldn't even return cnn's phone calls. >> is the chief in? >> it was an assistant police chief who finally came out to say, there was no story here. >> are you concerned a lot of these kids are from rankin county? not just one or two but seven of them that drove over there and took part in this. >> you're right. i can't -- you know, you will have a couple of bad seeds. one guy ran over the individual, not all six, so you know i can't -- i hate that it happened and i wish to god it didn't
happen here or anywhere, but as far as it being, you know, we have a national problem, we don't have any more problem than any other city. it's just an isolated incident and you can quote me on that. >> but it didn't take us long to find out it wasn't an isolated incident. derrell dedmon had a criminal history, arrested and convicted of harassment earlier last year. two years ago this local pastor said he had to call police when his son was being harassed. >> i had told jordan for a year and a half that deryl dedmon will kill you. >> he had a look of no consci s conscien conscience. he was blank stare.
derrell always carried around this backpack of hatred. >> other students also told us they were bullied or beaten by dedmon and his friends, who called people n -- lovers if they befriended blacks. we were told school administrators mostly looked the other way as bullying and hatredfestered. they declined our requests but a spokesman said they take bullying seriously and they had no record of any trouble from derrell dedmon. students told us dedmon and his friends were a problem, using racial slurs, calling blacks and even president obama the "n" word. ken johnson used to manage a gas station where dedmon and his friends used to hang out. >> it seems like every word that came out of their mouth was the "n" word. if they're taking over, as if it was some kind of war. >> dedmon's family refused to
talk to cnn, so did dedmon's attorney. this man did. swun once close to dedmon and his friends, he now fears them. >> i believe every one of these kids that occurred in the incident are dangerous and capable of many things. i just don't want my image to be seen because i'm really worried about it. >> this man told us there were other violent and racial incidents with dedmon and other friends of his. >> did they ever go looking for black people, hunting, literally? >> yes. they're known as the -- like i said the brandon boys but they're also known as the racist kids, the white group. >> cnn has learned federal investigators from the department of justice have uncovered two other possible incidents, where groups of white, rankin county teens, including dedmon, have sought
out and attacked a black person. >> have you guys been concerned about these guys? >> nope. >> not at all? >> nope. >> this man says racism is behind brandon, mississippi's silence. >> do you believe there's a lot of people in brandon, mississippi, that may feel the same way about the killing of a black man? >> yes. yes. i've even heard it out of some of the police officers' mouths, that this is their statement, deryl was a good kid. he just made one bad mistake. >> after initially pleading not guilty to murder, derrell dedmon just this past march changed his plea to guilty in a state court. the next day, dedmon and two others there that night pleaded guilty to committing federal hate crimes and admitted to a month's long pattern of brutal harassment against blacks. dedmon was given two life sentences for his murder plea. the others have yet to be
sentenced. up next, was it murder or a miscarriage of justice? the story of two families torn apart by a deadly shooting. clear, huh? my nutritional standards are high. i'm not juice or fancy water, i'm different. i've got nine grams of protein. twist my lid. that's three times more than me! twenty-one vitamins and minerals and zero fat! hmmm. you'll bring a lot to the party. [ all ] yay! [ female announcer ] new ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. twenty-one vitamins and minerals. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach. refreshing nutrition in charge! to experience the largest, most efficient line of luxury hybrids on the road, including the all-new esh. ♪ while many automakers are just beginning to dabble with the idea of hybrid technology... ♪ ...it's already ingrained in our dna. during the golden opportunity sales event,
prison, maybe for life, even after the trial that put him there was found by a judge to be full of holes. >> i was convictedof second degree murder with depraved indifference in 1997. i was tents to 20 years to life. >> new york city police officer richard diguglieno was sentenced to prison before a judge dollars to out the decision and sent him home. he was celebrating with family and police. >> when you walked out -- >> i couldn't believe it. my ankles weren't shackled. wow, this is real. >> a free man, he spent two years rebuilding his wife. he got a job, apartment, a life, just as suddenly in a twist of
the criminal justice system, it was all taken away. >> i still cannot adjust being back here. it is difficult. it is difficult. >> richard's bizarre journey began here, dobbs ferry, a charming village outside new york city. on october 23rd, 1996, the small community was rocked over a deadly shooting triggered by this parking space. the shooter was new york city transit officer richard, richie for short. the victim was charles campbell an amateur boxer who worked with underprivileged kids. his older brother called him "chaz." >> he was a wonderful athlete, wonderful person, a christian. loved kids, loved people, all people. >> it started around 5:00 on a clear autumn day. richard was working behind the count over his family-owned d i
deli. he had stopped by to help his brother and father-in-law, richard serena, who was recovering from a heart attack. parking was major problem along this busy street. they owned the building and say tenants had been with holding rent to protest the lack of open spaces. charles campbell didn't know about the ongoing tensions when he pulled his new corvette into this reserved spot and went across the street to get a piece of pizza. >> richie's father remembers that day. >> i asked him if he could please move to the other lot. and then he refused to do it. >> so the deli owner did what dobbs police told him to do. plaster a sticker on the window. >> here's what his family says he did when he saw that sticker on his car. >> i need a police officer here.
a fight just broke up outside. >> i was in the store and he put his hands up like this and said, there's no need for this. >> and then. >> he hit richie in the face. >> it was like getting hit with a hammer. they were hammer blows. >> he was out of control. somebody who didn't want to listen to reason or anything like that at the time. >> the fight spilled into the middle of the parking lot, as father, son and brother-in-law wrestled campbell to the ground. >> when i went to put my hand underneath his head, he said, that's it, i've had enough. so i said to richie, that's it. it's over. we let him up. now, whenever i had a fight, when i was a kid, it was over, it was over. >> but the fight wasn't over. what happened next changed everything.
charles campbell outnumbered, 3-1, went to his car. but rather than leave, he pulled out a bat. >> this man, with bat in his hands, how much more of a threat did that make him to your father? >> made him a deadly threat. >> back in the store, rich said he saw campbell strike his father not once but twice with the metal bat. >> i saw him up with the bat and he started to swing. that's when i reached for the gun. >> the off-duty officer grabbed the gun from under the cash register and raced outside, firing three times, hitting charles campbell in this middle of his chest. >> somebody was shot. >> from the time that bat came out until the time the incident was over, it was matter of four seconds, five seconds, and my training just kicked in. >> he doesn't remember the moments immediately after the shooting, only that one of the responding officers handed him the gun and asked for help
removing the bullet clip. then he, his father and brother-in-law were taken to the police station. >> we want what? when do we want it? >> rumors spread like wildfire that the shooting was racially motivated confirmed in part by the district attorney. >> there were racial epithets that the victim was cursed at, at the time just prior to the shooting. that information has been confirmed? did you ever use any racial slurs? >> we never used a curse word and we never used any racial words at all, none. >> his son's -- >> campbell's brother, william was not there but came to understand events. >> he was going to get to his car and came out from under his truck and said, die -- die and shot him.
>> the eyewitness 30 feet away did not hear any racial slurs instead telling the news crew he saw the bat aimed at the elder man. >> full force swings hitting him in the head and at least the leg pretty much what i saw. you called hear the smacks at least 20 feet away. to see your father getting hit with a bat. it was self-defense, what i saw. >> i remember at one point on television, you see your father getting beat, you have to do something. it was strictly self-defense. i remember saying, thank god for this witness. >> we brought murder charges. >> but that same night, district attorney piro charged richie with both intentional murder and murder with depraved indifference. >> i was like, how is this murder? i don't understand it. >> so this is the first time you killed a man? how heavily does that weigh on you?
>> not a day i don't think about it. i believe i saved my father's life that day. >> coming up, the trial that outraged a judge. >> was this a miscarriage of justice? >> i believe it was a miscarriage of justice. i'm the second owner. the what? i will own this car after you. look, i'm not telling you how to drive our car. our car? if you're gonna have a latte in the car, keep a lid on it. it's a cappuccino. still needs a lid. [ male announcer ] the highest-quality cars plus an exceptional certified pre-owned program. good news for the second owner. take care of my car! [ male announcer ] experience the summer of audi event with 1.9% apr for 60 months and a complimentary first month's payment on certified pre-owned audi models.
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>> we wanted to talk about the shooting to both the dobbs ferry police department and the westchester county district attorney janine piero. repeated requests were denied. in her book, pirro says no question, the shooting was racially motivated. race dominated the headlines but never came up at trial. instead, prosecutors claimed deguglielmo shot charles campbell in a murderous rage. assistant district attorney, patricia murphy telling the jury, quote, this is a case about revenge, this is a case about retribution, this is a case about payback. prosecutors argue the father, son and son-in-law ganged up on campbell so campbell had no schois but to grab a bat from his car. >> i know chaz. when he grabbed that bat, the idea of getting that bat was to just show either back on up, you
know, i'm not trying to start nothing here but i will finish it, take care of charging them. so he swung, i think, once at the father. >> do you think charles campbell could have killed your father, had that third hit struck him? >> sure. absolutely. it was a metal baseball bat. >> everyone's saying it's over a parking space. >> it's about a baseball bat. >> if there wouldn't have been a baseball bat, there wouldn't have been a gun. >> prosecutors, supported by eyewitness testimony, convinced a jury campbell, despite holding the bat, was backing away. the jury acquitted the dug dugs of assault. but richie was convicted of murder with depraved indifference. >> i never denied shooting charles campbell, i said i shot charles campbell to stop him from beating my father with the bat. is that an act of intent? yeah. you could say so.
it's definitely not depraved indifference murder. >> the deputy d.a. says justice was served. >> that's what this case is about. >> i'm happy it came back in the light i wanted it to come back in but i can't feel -- two families were totally destroyed. >> there was something wrong about the case about deguglielmo. two eyewitnesses came forward and told police deguglielmo was acng in self-defense and say police pressured them to change their story, a new hearing was ordered and in 2006, rorby belantoni got the case. >> he was an appeals court judge. >> what i dealt with was whether or not certain witnesses were coerced and if so, whether the jury was made aware of this coercio coercion. >> although some witnesses of
the original trial supported the prosecution's version of the shooting, two closest to the shooting did not. one of those was michael dillon. >> after giving his original statement on the night of the shooting, he was pick ed up by police officers night and day until he changed his statement. >> the dobbs ferry detectives just kept asking me the same questions over and over again, like an interrogation. >> here's what dillon originally told police. >> the black guy was swinging the bat at the older male when the shots were fired. >> the jury never heard that. instead, dillon testified at trial campbell wasn't swinging the bat. another key witness who refused to change his story and was not called to testify was james white. >> they were telling me that other people said this and other people said that, and i said, but i'm not interested in what other people said. i'm telling you what i saw and this i the truth. >> white was standing inside the
deli and he saw charles campbell not as victim but as aggressor. >> they held him down, only as long as it took for him to cease attacking. once he did that, they would let him up. >> white says that's when campbell got the bat, swinging at the elder deguglielmo. >> i'm looking at him saying, my god, he's going to kill him. >> the jury never heard that version either. bellantoni found the autopsy report supported white's story. >> one thing the district attorney's office couldn't get around at the hearing was that the bat was being held upright. the only way you get five wounds with three bullet is this bullet went in the forearm, out the forearm into the chest. >> in a scathing 69 page report, judge bellantoni called the district attorney's case a wholesale assault on the justice
system and criticized prosecutors for a win at all cost mindset. he overturned the conviction and set richie deguglielmo free. >> you started working. you moved into an apartment. tell me what else. >> met a woman, fell in love, got married. and then had to come back here. >> but prosecutors appealed, argue arguing bellantoni overstepped his authority. in a stunning reversareversal, judge panel on the highest court ruled even knowing the witnesses would have changed their stories it likely wouldn't have changed the verdict. >> i don't know how they can say that. if 12 people heard he stuck by his story, he finally changed it because he just didn't want to be harassed by the police department any longer might the verdict have been different? the answer for me was yes. >> was this a miscarriage of justice? >> i believe it was a miscarriage of justice.
>> today, i'm here, of my own free will, to surrender to this court and i will continue to fight this fight. >> op june 3rd, 2010, richie returned to prison to finish his sentence of 20 to life. >> i feel for richie because irregardless of what he was thinking, i forgive him, not his action. >> it's been a tragedy from day one. i won't belittle that in any way. how does a judge send you home and then another judge say, oh, no, we don't agree with you so we're going to send you back. >> would you have rather stayed in prison, knowing what you know now? >> there was a time i said, yes. but then i would have never met my wife. that's the sunshine in this dreary world. >> so there's hope. >> there's always hope.
>> after refusing cnn's interview requests, former d.a. janine pirro did finally send us a statement. in it she described charles campbell as an unarmed man and pointed out richard dug dugeguu guilt has repeatedly been affirmed by other courts and never answered why the race wasn't upheld at the trial or the other witnesses statements. richard isn't up for trial until 2015. doctors cheating on million exams. why has this gone on for so long and is the public at risk? takes me. this is so off course. nature can surprise you sometimes... next time, you drive. next time, signal your turn. ...that's why we got a subaru.
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$50 savings card. call now! it's a critical specialist in medicine. radiology, the doctors who examine x-rays and other image s to diagnose if you have a serious disease. to get board certified they must pass a test. cnn found many of those doctors have taken shortcuts along the way by getting exam questions by many doctors who have taken the test before them. it's been going on a long time, even a name for it, called "recall" because the doctors memorize the test and write them down. now a national crackdown by the group that certifies the radiologists that calls the practice down right cheating. >> this is absolute definitive
cheatin cheating. >> dr. matthew webb is a 32-year-old army doctor accepted into one of this military's largest million residency programs. a san antonio based texas complex that includes the renowned brook army million center where webb trained as a resident. it wasn't long before he was stunned to learn and open secret about most of his follow doctors. they were, he say s, cheating t pass million exams. >> it wasn't until i took my physics exam i found out the way the residents were studying for the exam was to actually study from verbatim recalled back tests that had been performed by prior residents. >> to become certified by the american board of radiology or abr, doctors must pass two written exams and an oral exam. web says he took that first exam
in the fall of 2008 and to his surprise, he failed the first test, which focuses on physics. he says he went to the doctor of the radiology program at the tim time. >> he told me that if you want to pass the abr physics exam, you absolutely have to use the recalls. i told him, sir, i believe that's cheating. i don't believe in doing that. i can do it on my own. he then went on to tell me, you have to use the recalls. almost as if it was a direct orde order. >> and an order easily fulfilled. webb found the recalls, the test almost verbatim on the military's website for the radiology residents. cnn has obtained all of these tests, at least 15 years of recalls stored on a shared military computer server. the test questions, the answers, even presented as a power point. cultivated from years of
residents taking tests, recalling the questions, and adding them to what appears to be an ever growing database, a glorified cheat sheet. >> our residents knew about the recalls. the program directors knew about the recalls. a large portion of people were using them and it was just accepte accepted. >> that bothered webb. not only was this cheating, this was the army. he says his supervisors in uniform didn't seem to care. webb took his complaint of cheating to the very board that certifies radiologists. dr. gary becker is the american board of radiologists executive director. >> we heard about these recall, memories come out of the test, write down 20 questions here, you take the next 20 questions. they almost sound like well organized schemes to skirt the very certification you're trying to insure. >> i don't think we know how well organized they are. we have inferential evidence. >> isn't it cheating? >> we would call it cheating.
our exam security policy would call it cheating, yes. >> now, for the first time in more than ten years, the board is revamping its entire testing procedures, at the same time cracking down because so many certified radiologists may have gained their certification, at least partially, because it was so easy to cheat. about half the questions on the annual radiology exam have been recycled from a large pool of old test questions. >> we take it seriously. because when we put the stamp of certification on an individual, that means the public has trusted us to do so. >> from any of the investigations or inquiries you've done, you don't really have a sense how long its a been going on? >> no. it's been going on a long time, i know. i can't give you a date. >> because this goes right to the heart of the value of the certification. >> that's exactly what it's all about. >> we showed becker copies of the recall exams from the military san antonio program. >> we're outraged by this.
we took this case to our professionalism committee. the result of the deliberations there and the decision of the board was to go directly back to the training director, the dean of the institution, and we've had those discussions. >> he acknowledged the recalls were very close to the actual test. >> in fact, i think you even have them sign a statement that they know that this material is copyrighted. >> that's correct. that's where the illegal comes in. >> it would be a crime? >> it would be a crime. >> despite repeated requests, the military refused to answer our questions on camera. it did send us a statement acknowledging residents shared exam questions in the past and it does not encourage or condone cheating of any kind. the military also admitted some faculty members and program directors were aware of the use of recalled examination questions by residents, in fact, the military admits a smaller number of faculty in a past
program leader encouraged the use of recall questions, as one of several tools to improve million knowledge and prepare for the exam. the military now says the recall exams have been removed from its computers and residents must sign this statement that they won't use them. but has the damage already been done? >> dr. webb, the complainant, he told us to find out that some of these physicians don't have the knowledge but are able to still get through by cheating, it's despicable. do you agree with it? >> i agree. i agree. now, i can say, we don't have any more information on other programs. we haven't heard similar reports from other residents. but if and when we ever hear of any, we're going to track them down. >> we wanted to find out just how widespread the use of recalls really is. so we figured we'd come here to
chicago, to the largest million convention in the united states. the radiological society of north america, which draws 60,000 radiologists from around the world. it wasn't long before we started getting answers. including the gs and is. [ engines revving ] because control is the ultimate expression of power. [ revving continues ] ♪ during the golden opportunity sales event, get great values on some of our newest models. this is the pursuit of perfection. who dreamed she could fly. like others who braved the sky before her, it took a mighty machine, and plain old ingenuity to go where no fifth grader had gone before. ♪
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if you want to find out just how widespread the cheating is on radiology exams, there is no better place than chicago's mccormick place in late november. for most of the last 36 years, ragts from across the world have been gathering here, for the largest million convention in the united states. 60,000 strong. the radiological society of north america is the place to show off new technology, new techniques and to find out that an old bad and perhaps illegal practice has been going on for years. dr. kay lazano, a practice iing radiologist for seven years said she never used recalls but admit this is a were easy to find.
>> i didn't know a person who didn't have access to those. but it was -- i think part of it's how you use it. >> residents here told us off-camera recall use is widespread, not just at the army program in san antonio but at programs across the country, including prestigious ones, like harvard's teaching hospital, massachusetts general. the chief of radiology there says he didn't know personally of anyone using recalls but also says we did not officially sanction or organize the recalls. >> was using recalls cheating? >> i think when something so widespre widespread, it feels less like it's cheating. >> how it works is simple and a long standing practice. residents take the american board of radiology's certification test and immediately upon finishing write down a portion of the test they are responsible to recall.
>> people decide before hand what sections will i focus on, in terms of trying to recall those questions and answers. and then after -- immediately after the examination, the residents get together and try to put these down on to paper or word processor to be able to, you know, share it with the classes coming behind you. >> dr. john yoo says residency programs even share their recalls helping each other build as close to a copied test as possible. he says it's not exactly cheating, especially when passing the test, getting certified could mean the difference between getting a job and being unemployed. >> it's sort of out of necessity to pass those examinations that you have to rely on the recalls. >> you, lazano, and dr. joseph deeper said residents used the
recalls primarily as guides to narrow down topics most likely to be covered on the exam. deeper s deiber says the exams are almost impossible to pass without the recalls because many are obscure facts. >> we tried to study out of the books. people don't pass that way. >> nonsense says dr. gary desker, from the american board of radiology or abr. >> there are people who say they are random questions or facts. we don't believe that. >> he said there is no reason to believe the widespread use of recalls has led to unqualified doctors since they must pass a rigorous oral exam. >> these are doctors, million doctors and there seems like there should be and is a higher standard. >> i agree with you. that's why the abr does not want to tolerate this behavior.
>> do you think it's a big deal? >> yeah. i think it's a big deal and recalls are cheating and it's inappropriate and abr isn't going to tolerate it. >> that may be so but residency directors like dr. king lee who doesn't endorse the recalls says it's been going on for so long, it's difficult to stop and any resident who speaks out may find few friends come test day. >> if a particular training is not willing to use recall to help them passthy ex the exam a couch of that particular training program is every one does it, then that particular person can be singled out as a social outcast. >> which brings us back to dr. matthew webb which tells us that's exactly what happened to him. he says he's been shunned by foll fellow residents and he was fired from the radiology program
after something related to the recalls. he was reprimanded by the army for making sexual comments to another doctor and for other conduct unbecoming an officer. webb calls it a personality dispute that's scal lated. now, the army has other plans for dr. webb, as this story was being prepared, he says the army called him in and grilled him on why he spoke to cnn. while he remains an army doctor, he does fear his military career is in jeopardy. >> the army denies it retaliated against dr. webb for speaking out. in the documents we obtained, the army actually calls dr. webb quote a remarkably talented resident but it also says he demonstrated conduct unbecoming an officer and physician. >> as for the new radiology exam, which rolls out next year, there will be all computer based and won't be an oral test anymore. it's designed to eliminate the us